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Tour De France 2013 "One of the fastest ascents up Ax 3 Domaines in history". Could you supply us with the figures for that claim please? It is also worth noting that the said climb has only been used five times in the Tour de France; based on such a small sample do we really have sufficient data to draw conclusions about what is a reasonable time and what should be considered exceptional, given that weather conditions, length of stage, number of prior climbs on the stage, pace prior to ascent, wind direction, if it is an early or later stage of the race, etc can be factors that affect things. Can I suggest you spare yourself any more disgust by watching something else? For the record, it struck me as neither disgusting nor laughable, but then I don t have the superior insight of all the people making accusations on here. No more disgusting or laughable than dominant wins by riders throughout the history of the sport. Just because one dominant rider or team cheated does not logically entail that any other rider that wins in a dominant fashion is cheating. Since, at best, the accusations being made here are anecdotal bailey button ugg boots uk and based upon massive amounts of supposition I think it best to keep an open mind. But then open minds seem to be in short supply here. Give us your figures please and the methodology by which you derived them and then maybe people should listen, but presenting figures such as yours on here without any peer review of indeed verification of any sort is hardly providing evidence one way or the other. I doubt that you have access to the required data, nor that your could check it and review it properly in the time taken to present it here. Sounds more like potentially spurious figures to give respectability to your prejudices, but I would be happy to be shown I am wrong if you were to put a thoroughly argued paper here, with peer review and some independent verification of the figures, parameters you used and their implications. Sorry DUDE but that is precisely my very cheap ugg boots point; sounds amateurish to me (first up it assumes google earth can give you accurate enough data). But more importantly what are the formulae you are suing and how have they been derived, are they sound or are there conflicting version of these calculations should be done, is there agreement in a genuine scientific community about the data and how it an be used and what parameters are normal and how much variance is possible? Given the (often very) small samples that are tested in much of what is published as so called sports science I remain sceptical. I do know people who work in the serious end of science medical researchers, pharmaceuticals etc, often find the science produced in sports science does not live up to the high standards of methodology expected of rigorous research. Wattie, not to be mean or rude, but your arguments are sounding very similar to those used by Lance Armstrong. "Oh you don t have enough proof, never failed a drug test, etc." The formula for wt/kg is simply taking the wattage divided by the weight. Figuring the speeds is also simple. Take the distance and divide it by the time it took. You can also do it for specific sections of a stage if you like. Now, determining Froome s and Porte s actual wattage is taking the time it took to finish the stage vs the distance vs the slope and some other factors, but you can fairly accurately determine the wattage needed to complete the stage in the time it actually took Threepar. I certainly am not using the Armstrong argument in this instance (though in a sense what other argument can any rider, clean or otherwise, actually use to defend themselves if someone wishes to believe they doped the rider cannot actually PROVE he didn t). What I am suggesting is that I would like a higher level of verification than the court of annedote, amateur sports science and internet speculation before I am willing to defame someone and their achievements. I am cynical about sports science because I have heard about too many examples that simply do not pass muster as science. Too many unexamined axioms upon which theories are built, too many experiments without proper control groups, and I said before often risibly small experimental sets. I am sure the calculations one can use are quite simple, but I would like to know if they are valid in determining normal or exceptional performance, especially taking into account that exceptional performance is the aim of professional sport and that the competitors are already by definition significant outliers. Wattie procyclist are "outliers" when compared to the general populations. NOT amongst the population of pro cyclists. this AGAIN was one of the false arguments used by defenders of Armstrong. he has a huge heart and lung and VO2max and super low resting HR, he was racing against grown men as a teen ager. yeah, but ALL pro cyclists have/do that. I raced against Michael Barry and he was a Junior or Cadet and I was an Elite 1. BUT amount pro cyclists Armstrong s VO2max was mediocre to low and didn t indicate in any way shape for form that he would be a 7 time TdF champ. Google "Telmisartan" it s likely what Sky are using. it s under consideration, but it s not yet banned so they are not technically cheating by using it although ethically I think they are. they can t be sanction now or later for using it. even if there was a test for it which there isn t. it s cheap. Among the leading innovations to the rules are that both 5 aminoimidazole 4 carboxamide 1 D ribofuranoside (peroxisome proliferator activated receptor [PPAR ] 5 adenosine monophosphate activated protein kinase [AMPK] agonist) and GW1516 (PPAR agonist) are no longer categorized as gene doping substances in the new 2012 prohibited list but as metabolic modulators in the class "Hormone and metabolic modulators." This may also be valid for the angotensin II receptor blocker telmisartan. We suspect that metabolic modulators abuse such as telmisartan might become a tangible threat in sports and should be thereby targeted as an important antidoping issue. The 2012 WADA prohibited list does not provide telmisartan for a potential doping drug, but arguments supporting the consideration to include them among "metabolic modulators" are at hand."The point is not "proof" that Froome/Sky are doping, only that there is circumstantial evidence that has been consistently correlated with the use of doping products, and that this is cause for suspicion. I d argue that TWO riders effortlessly demolishing the competition (4 recent GT winners included) on the first mountain stage also looks suspicious. Add in Wiggins from last year, and it is clearly not a case of once in a lifetime talent, but of a teamwide superiority that has not adequately been explained. This is an absurd burden of proof which is comical. Comments like this make me laugh. given you didn t notice porte was pulling for 2.5km, or less than a third of the climb, you ll forgive me if i treat your calculations with a grain of salt as for doping, well. maybe they are, maybe they aren t, aside from the level at which they re performing there s less concrete evidence against them than many of their rivals, but only a fool would rule it out. But if they are cheats, you can take some comfort that recent history suggests both that they ll probably get their comeuppance eventually and that they are most likely only stealing titles from other cheats. Terrence Martineau. So there is this new wonder drug you are referring to and you have determined without any real evidence that sky are using it. My question is this: why do sky appear to be the only ones using it? Surely all those other teams would have found about cheap ugg bags about it too. Or are sky ethically dubious and all the others angelic? Your argument seems to be a) it exists b) sky are winning; ergo sky must be using it. Not a terribly convincing argument really as there is no necessary logical connection between a and b. Really to go from one team seems dominant, to they are using THIS SPECIFIC drug, is getting into the realms of fantasy. To say nobody knew who Barry Bonds was before his home run escapades makes you sound ignorant beyond comprehension. Bonds was an All Star from the age of 25 when he was a skinny kid with he Pirates and was already a two time MVP before he left the Pittsburgh for the Bay Area. He was already on his was to a Hall of Fame career. That he got stupid and ruined his career by getting on roads to be able to hit more home runs no doubt ruined or at least hindered his Hall of Fame career. Look up his stats before making silly comments. Your point that Victor Conteand his lab, BALCO,were responsible for his physical changes at a stage in life when he should NOT have been growing are at least somewhat correct in that it was due to a new, and at the time, undetectable drug. Your facts about his career make him a crappy example. Brady Anderson would have been more appropriate. In every sport, there are people fading away because of age sooner than other sporters. Freire, Voigt or Evans, for exemple, had/have a very long career, while the likes of Andy, for exemple, faded when they were still young (where is the Schleck from 2009 and 2010 ?). It s the same in soccer: Drogba has emerged really late, at an age when some other players already begin to weaken. You ve got the same in tennis, where Kim Clijsters stopped her carreer really early. Not everybody reacts the same when he gets older.
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